Hall Of Fame Debate: Willie Stargell VS Dave Parker
For this week’s ‘Hall Of Fame Debate’, I thought it would be fun to compare the careers of two players that were teammates for large parts of their playing careers – Willie Stargell and Dave Parker.
We all know that Stargell is a Hall of Famer, and Parker is not. Stargell was elected in 1988 in his first year of eligibility. On the flip side, Dave Parker remained on the Hall of Fame ballot for fifteen years. Parker never earned more than 24% of the vote for election into Cooperstown.
But are their baseball careers that different? Was Willie Stargell drastically better than his teammate Dave Parker??
That is what tonight’s debate is all about – Does Willie Stargell deserve his ’1st ballot status’ and should Dave Parker be joining his teammate in Cooperstown.
First, let’s dig into the career numbers of these players:
| Willie Stargell | Dave Parker | |
| Seasons | 21 | 19 |
| Games | 2360 | 2,466 |
| Hits | 2,232 | 2,712 |
| 200-Hit Seasons | 0 | 1 |
| Batting Average | 0.282 | 0.29 |
| Batting Titles | 0 | 2 |
| On-Base % | 0.36 | 0.339 |
| Doubles | 423 | 526 |
| Home Runs | 475 | 339 |
| 30-HR Seasons | 4 | 3 |
| 40-HR Seasons | 2 | 0 |
| Runs Scored | 1,195 | 1,272 |
| RBI | 1,540 | 1,493 |
| 100-RBI Seasons | 4 | 4 |
| 30/100 Seasons | 2 | 3 |
| All-Star | 7 | 7 |
| Gold Glove | 0 | 3 |
| Silver Slugger | 0 | 3 |
| ROY | 0 | 0 |
| MVP | 1 | 1 |
| Postseasons | 6 | 8 |
| WS Titles | 2 | 2 |
Within these numbers, here is what stands out most to me:
- Parker’s career hits tally
- Parker’s batting titles
- Stargell’s on-base percentage
- Parker’s doubles
- Stargell’s home runs
- Parker’s Gold Gloves
- Parker’s Silver Slugger Awards
OK, and now the debate can begin.
First, let me tackle the Stargell-side. Willie Stargell was a fantastic player, and a supreme power hitter. He filled his role extremely well and was responsible for great run production during the majority of his career. He is the oldest player in major league history to win an MVP Award and that shows the career-long dedication that ‘Pops’ put into the sport. But, a first ballot HOFer?? I don’t think so. I fully understand that the writers that were voting in 1988 (his year of election) had different things to review in 1988 than what voters have in 2013. There are new numbers out now that show the real value of a player. It is not his fault at all, but Stargell’s vote took place during a time when entry was easier. And while he should not be blamed for that, he also does not deserve to be resting with other first-ballot guys like Aaron, Musial, Schmidt, and Brett. I absolutely think that Willie Stargell had a Hall of Fame career, and I would call him a 2nd or 3rd tier kind of player.
Ok, now onto Dave Parker. When looking at Parker, you see an imposing guy – 6 feet, 5 inches tall and 230 pounds. But just when you think that he is a one-dimensional slugger, you notice that Parker was a fantastic all-around player. Parker won back-to-back batting titles in an era when he was competing against players like Rod Carew, Bill Madlock, and Steve Garvey for the best batting averages in baseball. Parker, during the early stages of his career, was also a fantastic fielder. He won Gold Gloves in three straight seasons in the late 1970′s. For me, the biggest knock against Parker was that with his size you could have expected more home run production. Parker never had a 40-HR season, and he is well behind others on the all-time list that you would think he would have surpassed. But, the number of doubles Parker hit during his career can counter-balance some of that. Parker hit 526 doubles during his career, and he tallied 8 seasons of at least 30 or more doubles.
In my opinion, Dave Parker deserved a lot more Hall of Fame votes than what he received. To obtain no more than 24% of the vote in a single year is a bit ridiculous. Maybe it was the fact that ‘Cobra’ played for four different teams in his final four years (Lee Smith-esque) or maybe it was that for a body his size you expected to see more balls leaving the ballpark, either way – you cannot argue that Dave Parker was one of the most well-rounded hitters of his era. His 1978 MVP season was phenomenal, and could be compared to other MVP-winning seasons from that time and hold up extremely well.
But, should Dave Parker be in the Hall of Fame?
My answer is ‘Yes’. Parker was an unreal talent. And he is a player that I have a strong affinity for. While I don’t think about Parker in the same breath that I think of his 1st ballot contemporaries – Schmidt, Brett, and Yount, I do see him more on par with Andre Dawson and Jim Rice. And that is good enough for me.
There you have it. A little exhausting, but a lot of fun too!!
And now it is your turn to weigh in on this – (1) Is Willie Stargell worthy of his 1st ballot Hall of Fame status? (2) Is Dave Parker worthy of Hall of Fame induction.
Ok, time for you to sound off!!!
I have never thought that Stargell deserved 1st ballot status and would say he is a deserving but fringe HOFer.
The Parker comparison is very compelling, I hadn’t looked at them side by side but after reading your post in addition to my memories of watching Parker, I would also say he is a deserving but fringe HOFer. He had one of the best arms ever including the best All Star game throw I have ever seen.
Great post!
Adam- Thanks. And yes, I agree, when putting Parker’s numbers up against others, he compares pretty well – and even better in some cases!!
Great Comparison. – Stargell was a first ballott HOF. He was POPS. The Silver Slugger Award did not begin until 1980. He played in the least offensive decades (60s and 70s) in the last 100 years. Parker is a borderline HOF. The Best player in the Game from 1975-1979 – then Schmidt took over. Was Parker on the 1990s As
John- Being the best player for a five year stretch is pretty solid, right? I can think of many HOFers that cannot boast that kind of tag – Perez, Dawson, Rice, Alomar, and more…
Excellent points about Stargell playing in the pitching dominated 60′s & 70′s and the Silver Slugger award not being in existence until 1980.
Matt- I’m interested in your thoughts on Parker.
Great post on 2 of my top 10 all time players. I think a couple of things are missing, one is the timing. Willie retired in 1982. Bench and Yaz the next year, might of been different if he was healthly one more year and was eligible the same years as those two. Second, Pops was an awesome leader, giving out the stars, mentoring younger players, etc. I think he really stepped up after the death of Clemente. Stargell is probably my favorite player ever.
Parker was awesome as well, but played under the shadow of Stargell to some degree much like Stargell and Clemente. His numbers are great, awesome arm (1979 all star game).
I think it is a shame players like Parker, Morris, Trammell, Lee Smith and do many others are not in the Hall.
Personally, the selection process should be more like the NFL. Just my opinion.
Doug- I did not know that these guys were your favorites; very good to know…
As for the NFL voting system, I kind of think that is a joke. The mandatory 6-player per year rule allows for a lot more watered down players getting in. I like ‘elite’ and I think that of the three major sports, baseball does it the best!!
I agree 6 is a bit much, but a balance between the two would be nice. I just think that certain players like Rice and Blyleven had other comparable players that were just as equal like Parker, Morris, Murphy and some others that depending on when they retire, and who’s time is running out make the Hall. If you had a HOF career than you should get in timely, and don’t do it like they did with Ron Santo. Let the players enjoy it.
Doug- I’m with you on that front. Think of how much more the Santo family would have enjoyed that moment if ‘Ronnie’ was there with them in person.. A shame!
Parker was a really good player, but I’m not sure if he is HOF worthy. The difference between his batting average & his on base percentage is pretty low and he doesn’t any magic numbers like 400 home runs or 1500 RBI (close). Also I don’t think anyone has mentioned the drug scandal that he was a part of in the early/mid 1980′s because he could have lost supporters voters during that time.
Stargell was the perfect leader to follow in Clemente’s path. He was a well loved player who had a ton of home runs and RBI. I can definitely see how he got in on the first ballot.
Also he played on 4 different teams 89-91. I doubt that helped much.
Matt- Agreed, I call that the Lee Smith Effect…
Matt- For me, Parker displayed a more well-rounded game. And while he may not have reached the HR or RBI magic numbers like you mentioned, he was most certainly a ’4-tool player’. I do agree about the batting average and on-base percentage being too close.
Loved the side by side comparison on stats… it was pretty eye opening. Pops is a HOFer, no doubt. But 1st ballot? That should be reserved for the cream of the crop.
As for the Cobra… he’d definitely get my vote. That guy was amazing.
Fuji- Nice and concise, well done sir!!
As a life-long Pirate fan, of course I think Parker should be in, albeit just barely, a la Jim Rice. In today’s day and age, with so many deserving players not being voted in yet, I find it hard to believe that Parker will ever make it sadly.
Ron- Question for you: We’re the Pirates at any time considered to be Parker’s team?
No. It was always Stargell’s (Pops), “We are family” team.
Ron- that is kind of what I thought. Maybe he was seen as a 2nd wheel by the voters which would certainly take votes from him…
In addition to the pitching-dominant era, Stargell played many of his peak years at Forbes field. It is no coincidence his season home run totals took off when the Bucs moved to Three Rivers. If Stargell had played his entire career at TRS, 550-600 home runs easy. I find him quite deserving of the first ballot considering era and park effects
Tom of Oregon- Excellent point about the ballpark. Definitely something that did not cross my mind.
Well done sir!
It’s a GREAT side-by-side comparison. It’s also a case of one player (Parker) burning brightly for a couple of seasons with monster numbers and another (Stargell) putting up consistently solid stats for a long period of time. They both arrived at the same numbers, they just got there via different paths.
I think you hit on a wonderful point about Parker’s size and his HR totals, they do seem low for him, especially when you think about him and Dave Winfield (465HR) playing during the same time period.
As for me, Parker was a great player for 5 years, but not a HOF player.
WrigleyRegular- You make some excellent points.
In today’s era, I think Parker may be the more embraced player. His tools would be considered pretty rare by today’s standards.
Thanks for sharing.
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