Tag Archives: edgar martinez

Hall Of Fame Debate: PICK ONE: Harold Baines OR Edgar Martinez

Hall Of Fame Debate: PICK ONE: Harold Baines OR Edgar Martinez

When the Hall of Fame made the announcement that their would be no modern players inducted into Cooperstown in 2013, I was not completely shocked.  I had read enough to understand that the BWAA voters were not all on the same page and that they were still split on whether players linked to PEDs should be in our out of the Hall of Fame. 

For me, the most alarming aspect of the vote was that certain players that I felt would easily get more votes than they did in prior years simply did not.  From Tim Raines to Lee Smith to Alan Trammell, I thought that these ‘clean’ guys would benefit from the votes not given to the more prolific and stat-packed players.

But, that did not happen.

Two of the guys that I thought would get big bumps in voting were Edgar Martinez and Harold Baines.  Both guys are supremely respected players, and are considered to be among the greatest designated hitters of all-time.

So, for this week’s debate, I thought I would put the two of them in a head-to-head battle for your vote.

I’m not saying that both deserve election.  And I am not saying that neither of them do.  What I am saying is, if you have to choose only one, which player’s resume stands out the most to you?  Who would you vote into the Hall of Fame if you had to choose between Harold Baines and Edgar Martinez??

First, let’s look at their numbers:

  Baines Martinez
Seasons 22 18
Games Played 2830 2,055
Hits 2,866 2,247
Doubles 488 514
Home Runs 384 309
Total Bases 4,604 3,718
RBI 1,628 1,261
Runs Scored 1,299 1,219
Batting Average 0.289 0.312
Batting Titles 2
On-Base % 0.356 0.418
20-HR seasons 12 7
30-HR seasons 0 1
100-RBI seasons 3 6
All-Star 6 7
Silver Slugger 1 5
MVP
Playoffs 6 4
World Series 0

*

Ok, when you look at these numbers, it shows that both players were supreme hitters.  And they were both very good at their job.

But, which one is better?

Baines’ numbers are greater in many areas, but he also played for more seasons.  Martinez’s career is more compacted in length, but he offered more production per year during his prime.

So, who gets the vote?  Who gets your vote?

While Baines may have been the first, great full-time designated hitter, Edgar Martinez took the position to another level.   My vote goes to Martinez.  He won two batting titles and had a much higher on-base percentage than Baines.  And as a  professional hitter, those categories are very important.  And during his prime years, he was driving in runs at a rampant pace.  I also take into consideration the Silver Slugger awards – they are chosen by your peers, and with Martinez racking them up, it shows the respect that people had for his ability to do his job at the highest level.

And now that you have my vote, who ya got?? 

Gavel

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My First Time – Edgar Martinez – September 12, 1987

My First Time – Edgar Martinez – September 12, 1987

The Setting – Kingdome.  Seattle, Washington.

From Martinez – ‘My first action was as a pinch runner of all things.  I remember that my parents couldn’t make the trip from Puerto Rico so I was kind of on my own.  They never saw me play in the majors until the next year’.

The Boxscore – Mariners 12, White Sox 2.  Martines goes 0-for-1.

1991 Upper Deck Baseball – Pack Break #6

I bring you the sixth of eight packs of 1991 Upper Deck baseball cards that I ripped through this morning…

Notable – Ramon Martinez, Greg Gagne, Edgar Martinez

Pick Of The Pack – Triple exposure shot of Rickey Henderson

1991 Upper Deck Baseball – Pack Break #3

I bring you the third of eight packs of 1991 Upper Deck baseball cards that I ripped through this morning…

Notable – Edgar Martinez, Fred Lynn, Paul O’Neill

Pick Of The Pack – Dale Murphy in a Phillies uniform!!!

Cooperstown : Looking Ahead To 2010

With thoughts of Cooperstown fresh on my brain, I thought it would be worth examining who is up for potential election into the Hall of Fame in 2010.  Per the HOF website, here is that list.

2010:Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Robin Ventura, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Kevin Appier, Ellis Burks, Ray Lankford, Pat Hentgen, Todd Zeile, Eric Karros, Mark McLemore, Andres Galarraga, Fernando Vina, Mike Jackson, Shane Reynolds, Dave Burba, David Segui, Andy Ashby

Of this group of guys there are 6 guys worthy of consideration, with 4 that should get some serious attention.  Those 6 players are: Alomar, Larkin, Ventura, Martinez, McGriff, and Galarraga.  And with no disrespect meant towards the outstanding careers of Robin Ventura and Edgar Martinez, their career achievements are not on par with players enshrined into the Hall of Fame.

So that leaves us with 4 guys.  4 guys that had remarkable careers.  4 guys that should get some major vote counts thrown their way.

Here is a Breakdown:

Roberto Alomar – 2,724 hits, 1,508 runs scored, 210 home runs, 1,134 RBI, 474 stolen bases, .300 batting average, 12 time all-star, 10 Gold Glove awards, 4 Silver Slugger trophies, 2 World Series championships

alomar

Barry Larkin – 2,340 hits, 1,329 runs scored, 198 home runs, 960 RBI, 379 stolen bases, .295 batting average, 12 time all-star, 3 Gold Glove awards, 9 Silver Slugger trophies, 1 MVP award, 1 World Series championship

larkin

Fred McGriff – 2,490 hits, 1,349 runs scored, 493 home runs, 1,550 RBI, 72 stolen bases, .284 batting average, 5 time all-star, 3 Silver Slugger trophies, 1 World Series championship

mcgriff

Andres Galarraga – 2,333 hits, 1,195 runs scored, 399 home runs, 1,425 RBI, 128 stolen bases, .288 batting average, 5 time all-star, 2 Gold Glove awards, 2 Silver Slugger trophies

galarraga

In summary, I think that 3 of these 4 guys will get in.  Sadly I don’t think that Galarraga will be in that group.  My guess is that Barry Larkin will get the most votes of this rookie class of 2010, but I don’t see him as a first ballot kind of player.  Alomar on the other hand is a first ballot kind of guy, but his on and off the field problems are what people remember first about his career so I think he may have to wait a few years before he gets in.  And McGriff is worthy of a spot too, I just don’t see him getting un until a few other key guys go before him, notably Andre Dawson, Barry Larkin, Bert Blyleven, Tim Raines, and Roberto Alomar.

Your thoughts???

Is Edgar Martinez Hall of Fame Worthy???

Some of the best debates amongst baseball fans is if a player is or is not worthy of induction into the Hall of Fame.  Sometimes it is hard to put personal feelings aside about a player, especially if he was a favorite of yours or played for your team.  But, when it’s all said and done, the player’s stats and on the field abilities are what give him the right to sit alongside baseball’s greatest players in Cooperstown.

Does someone that played 70+% of their career as a designated hitter belong in the Hall of Fame?  Does Edgar Martinez fit the bill?  Let’s see…

First, let’s get the defensive question out of the way.  Martinez did not make it to the major leagues because of his defensive ability.  Of the 2,055 total games played during his career, Martinez only took the field in a defensive role 591 times, or 29% of the time.

Now for the fun, offense:

Hits 2247
Home Runs 309
RBI 1261
Average 0.312
Runs 1219
Stolen Bases 49
Strike Outs 1202
Walks 1283
All-Star 7
Silver Slugger 5(1 as a 3rd Baseman)
Batting Titles 2

Although there are several very respectable numbers in Martinez’s resume, I have to say that nothing stands out as extraordinary.  Had Edgar eclipsed a few hitting milestones like 3,000 hits or 400 home runs the debate would be greater.  Edgar Martinez was a great hitter and excelled as a hitter over most of his 18-year career.  But is this enough to get him into the Hall of Fame?

In my opinion the answer is ‘No’.  There are several players that retired from baseball around the same time as Edgar Martinez that were more well rounded and complete players in my opinion.  Defense is an important part of the game, and although it was not Edgar’s role for more than 1,600 games during his career there are too many players that have similar or comparable offensive numbers that played good defense too that I fell are more worthy of the debate as to if they belong in the Hall of Fame.

Sorry Edgar.  I enjoyed watching you hit with your days in Seattle, but I just don’t think enough was accomplished to put you next to baseball’s elite.